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This is a campaign that will make sure that the patriotism of the quiet majority will be heard alongside the voices of the committed few. We share a common platform on this single issue because, along with so many of our fellow Scots, we believe that a better future for ourselves and our children is as a partner in the United Kingdom.

 

Alistair Darling’s speech in Edinburgh launching the Better Together campaign

 

 

Have your say ahead of the referendum

 

Welcome to the No Scotland Blog. Here you will find links to all the latest news and features on the Scottish Independence Referendum from both Yes and No camps.

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  1. For the first time in my life, today, I felt ashamed to be Scottish – after having been born and bred here. My sister in law in the USA asked me what on earth was going on – it’s in the news in the USA that the Scottish separatists are expected to boo the English athletes at the Commonwealth Games!!! Are we really so crass and boorish that we could behave like that, and worse, that we have that reputation abroad? What happened to our traditional Scottish hospitality?

    I really hope nobody on either side really does treat our guest athletes that way – if they do, I hate to think what’s become of us. Just the perception abroad is bad enough! I don’t want to be associated with a Scotland where that kind of thing happens.

    If ‘yes’ supporters do make such an exhibition of themselves, it won’t do their cause any favours and will further reinforce my increasing conviction to vote NO !

    • Lee Gilray says:

      So you felt ashamed to be Scottish because of a hunch that someone had. . Hmmmmm

      • Lee Gilray said “So you felt ashamed to be Scottish because of a hunch that someone had”

        No – I felt ashamed to be Scottish because of how we are being perceived abroad, in the USA! I seriously hope it is just down a ‘hunch’ by someone that’s been blown up by the press, and that there really is no more to it!

        If I had to guess, I’d suspect that all the childish insults and inexcusable rudeness against the ‘no’ campaign supporters in social media might have had something to do with it. While I’m sure there has been some ‘nonsense’ of that kind from both sides, my perception (rightly or wrongly) is that most of it by far has been from the ‘yes’ side, aimed at the ‘no’ camp.

      • Lee Gilray says:

        Well, I’ll easily add to the argument that BOTH sides have their ‘bad eggs’ and I’ve seen some horrible comments from no supporters and unionists. The press just hang onto the yes supporters doing the abuse. Political bigotry is clearly evident on both sides.
        I personally don’t care what the Americans think as along side the UK they don’t exactly have a great reputation worldwide, thanks to their government.

      • Absolutely – I don’t care whether the boorish behaviour is coming from ‘yes’ or ‘no’ sides – either way, it makes me ashamed that they are part of our country. But for sure, the press seem to be emphasising the crass behaviour from the ‘yes’ supporters, and to be honest, that view does match my perception from reading comments in online forums and social media. But both sides are certainly ‘at it’.

        I doubt if ‘no’ supporters would be motivated to ‘boo’ the English though, no matter how badly behaved they were! We’ll see when the games start – I’ll be crossing my fingers that ‘grown up’ attitudes prevail from everybody!

      • A. Strachan says:

        Lee you are spot on there. I am disgusted at both sets of supporters yes or no with some of the abuse and threats. The physical abuse and assaults many yes supporters have had requiring hospital treatment, not to mention the likes of the orange order marches and the likes, very embarrassing indeed for Scotland as a whole to have such bigotry in our midst!

        What worsens all this is the utter drivel and abuse coming direct from Westminster with their threats and warnings, all based on opinion or narrow minded misconceptions! They make Scotland appear unable to support itself, which, as all the economists already acknowledge is utter rubbish!

        London has already made the UK and Scotland appear futile and run by iidiots to the entire world over this. The scaremongering and threats speak a million words to most.

        What embarrasses me now is the no support, who actually believe most of the drivel, as they did back in the referendum for devolution. None of which was true then, and guess what, none of it is true now! People around the world are bewildered at just how much the people of Scotland are allowing themselves to be bullied. We are one of the very few (maybe the only) countries that allow ourselves to be governed from another country, by a government we didn’t vote for and hand over ALL OUR RESOURCES AND TAXES to them! How stupid do we need to be to not see this?

        Scotland is a wealth nation, not only in reseources and finances but also in people and skills. We have more than enough to master our own destiny and certainly do not need to hand over everything the country generates to another nation. The only reason they want Scotland is for our wealth! The UK has run its course. It is finished.

        Every other country who has broken away from the UK has managed well. Even Eire who faced to fiscal crunch (as we all did) has bounced back far quicker than the UK! Our 1.4 trillion (and growing) national debt is not going to get better, only worse!

      • A. Strachan said “Even Eire who faced to fiscal crunch (as we all did) has bounced back far quicker than the UK! ”

        Please correct me if I’ve got this wrong, but I thought Eire only ‘bounced back’ because to avoid complete collapse, they were given an 85 billion euro rescue package, around 65 billion of which were funded from the EU and IMF? If I’ve got it right, that isn’t exactly a role model to aspire to!

      • A. Strachan says:

        Fortunately, Scotland isn’t like Eire. Scotland has a far healthier and vibrant fiscal budget, and, will continue to have such a budget, just as many other oil wealthy nations have. I prefer to be optimistic rather than your dour and pessimistic down trodden and heart rendering drivel!

        I want no more of the same, cut backs, raised taxes, austerity driven, food bank laden UK bullshit! They are in it to line their pockets and that of their rich ‘pals’. Nothing more. Corruption of the very highest order and we let them away with it.

        The UK is badly broken and a write off. It needs scrapped and a new start. Every single other country to have gained independence from London have not regretted it, nor will Scotland. To say otherwise is just drivel and bluster.

        I don’t see why Scotland would be any different from the countless others to have gained their independence from London and their war mongering policies!

      • A. Strachan said “I prefer to be optimistic rather than your dour and pessimistic down trodden and heart rendering drivel! ”

        That is ‘Pollyanna’ speaking – we are in the real world here. Being optimistic and positive about the future is crucial, but our outlook must also be firmly grounded as well!! And lets not let this get personal!

        A. Strachan said “I want no more of the same, cut backs, raised taxes, austerity driven, food bank laden UK bullshit! They are in it to line their pockets and that of their rich ‘pals’. Nothing more. Corruption of the very highest order and we let them away with it. ”

        Really? I haven’t seen one convincing statement anywhere that tells me how this change in direction can be paid for!!!! Lots of assertions, but nothing that seems credible. For example, look back to my post of a couple of weeks ago about the misleading publicity about free childcare – I asked if anyone could tell me how it was to be funded, and got no reply – and haven’t seen anything in the campaigning to tell me! Just an implication that somehow increased tax take from newly working parents will contribute to the cost. Which I’m sure they will, but I don’t see how the income from can make even the tiniest dent in the cost!

        Corruption – sure – sadly that goes with the nature of humanity, and is particularly visible and heinous in all politicians – and it happens in politicians of all flavours – no reason to believe an independent Scotland will be any different! And corruption of the ‘highest order’??? I don’t think so – there are plenty of countries across the world where corruption appears to go far deeper than ours does!!!

        A. Strachan said “The UK is badly broken and a write off. It needs scrapped and a new start. Every single other country to have gained independence from London have not regretted it, nor will Scotland. To say otherwise is just drivel and bluster.”

        Now who’s being negative, blustering and scaremongering? !!! Think back to your earlier statement about a positive outlook !!!! And from what I remember of my history, Eire really struggled through most of the 20th century until their property bubble starting in the 1990s which gave them a huge boom, resulting in an enormous crash that led to their needing a huge bail-out (which the UK didn’t need – indeed we helped with the bailout I believe) – and thanks to that bailout, are now recovering surprisingly well, but still have serious long term challenges to overcome – they are nowhere near ‘out of the woods’ !

        To be sure, Britain was seriously damaged (again !!!!!) by the Labour government and has a legacy of an enormous national debt that will take a lot of dealing with, but is well strong enough to recover. Some of the Labour policies that so catastrophically exacerbated the crash in the UK look to me to be very similar to those that the ‘yes’ campaign are trying to sell independence with – involving a LOT of spending without any apparent way of paying for it!

        By the way – if Scotland does go independent and the rest of the UK collapses, how would it not take Scotland with it anyway? We’ll still be closely tied by our trade links, and even more so economically if we do, against all likelihood, get to share the pound. It is in OUR OWN SELF INTEREST that the UK thrives, whether we are independent or not !!!!

      • a. strachan says:

        John there are countless links all over these threads. There are articles all over the internet, there are books such as weighing up the economics by gavin mccrone that i have bought and read. Then there is your negative drivel, scare based rhetoric and head in the sand mindset. I wonder what one i will believe …… Mmmm let me think!

        Nope i will listen to the professinals and the continuing political exodis to yes! You are a lost cause, unwilling to educate yourself all the time pretending you will consider the proof. Again, utter drivel.

        I really do have nothing further to say. The poll on here says it all lol! I wont be wasting any more time here. You spout nothing new, the same crap day in day out!

        Incidently, the fact london could close down our devolved government is not scare mongering That is fact. Unlike scare mongering over things such as eu, ££, border control, passports, pensions, lack of oil. Dwindling resources…… All drivel, all lies and all incorrect

      • your reply did make me smile slightly. Like you say, I try to listen to the professional – though finding professionals without obvious associations to vested interests is not easy!

        I am a ‘lost cause’ unless or until the yes campaign actually manage to answer some of my points or come up with some more credible reasoning – reasoning which I was searching for for over two years!

        You accuse me of “negative drivel” – yet I do try to back what I say with independent sources, and you have never really answered anything I have posed, other than with assertions that are not INDEPENDENTLY backed up, or by accusing me of ‘drivel’ and ‘scaremongering’. That adds no value to the debate whatever and undermines whatever points you were trying to make.

        I believe the poll on this site is a complete waste of time. I imagine there will be others like me who are favouring ‘no’ and who haven’t bothered registering a position on it at all – I am ignoring it, but I suspect that there will be ‘yes’ campaigners who have probably voted multiple times. Anyone who believes it is in cloud cuckoo land.

        And I well believe it is fact that London ‘could’ try to drag us back into unravelling our current devolution – but why do you believe that they will? The idea seems ridiculous and is as much a piece of speculative scaremongering as anything you could find from the ‘no’ campaign! Lots of things are technically or legally ‘possible’ which are so daft it’s not worth wasting time worrying about!

        You specifically said however, that things said about the EU, the pound and dwindling resources were “all drivel, all lies and all incorrect”. Please either back that up with specifics, or stop accusing others of lying. Two key points that seem VERY apparent to me, is that (a) we will NOT get to share the pound as an integrated currency, without some very tough negotiations that will cost us in one way or another (because of the political posturing at Westminster, even if it might be good for the UK as well as Scotland – which it might not!), and (b) a high likelihood that it will take a long time to get back into Europe, and on terms that are not nearly as advantageous to us as those we have now through the UK. I presume those are examples of what you call drivel and lies. Please explain why you consider those statements to be wrong, and back that up with something beyond wishful thinking?

        Or we can politely agree to differ, in which case, stop accusing the ‘no’ supporters of lies over such things.

      • A. Strachan said “What worsens all this is the utter drivel and abuse coming direct from Westminster with their threats and warnings, all based on opinion or narrow minded misconceptions! They make Scotland appear unable to support itself, which, as all the economists already acknowledge is utter rubbish!”

        I have never heard anyone from Westminster say Scotland couldn’t support itself – quite the contrary! Inadvertently I’m sure, I think you’re misrepresenting what Westminster is saying – though I know there is scaremongering from ‘no supporters’ outside the official campaign who say that kind of thing, not very different from all the ‘opposite scaremongering’ that endlessly pours out from the ‘yes’ side.

        Anyone, on either side, who paints this dilemma as an obvious ‘no-brainer’ based on a choice between nirvana and catastrophe, either way – is grossly misrepresenting the position – and whichever way the vote goes, we all have more tough times to come. The rhetoric is useless as a guide to the best decision as both sides are spinning as hard as they can get away with to win the argument. And any point made with emotive language like ‘idiot’, ‘drivel’ and ‘stupid’ is also undermining the debate and trivialising its importance, and I think, will tend to be ignored by thinking readers.

        Surely a very major issue is not whether Scotland will survive, but how well it will survive, and how well placed it will be to overcome the very real risks that the future holds. And it is in those things that, for me, the ‘yes’ campaign has been extremely unconvincing, as soon as you really look beyond the apparently shallow assertions.

      • A. Strachan says:

        Really John? This idiot does it all the time:

        ?refsrc=email

        So please cut the rhetoric! Your head has been firmly buried in the sand for months! Please, just leave it there. Even the economists and the slow growth of Labour ministers moving to support yes is testament as more and more read up on the truth of the matter. Just as they did in the devolution referendum, exactly the same pathetic drivel!

        Even you with your, ‘will Scotland survive’ GET A GRIP OF YOURSELF MAN! Eire survived far better than the UK through the last fiscal crash and bounced back far easier EVEN WITH THE EURO! We fortunately won’t have that should we vote for the correct party to control our country!

        What real risks? You think having a 1.4 trillion GROWING debt puts us in a solid position for the future? Are you serious?

        You go and vote no and make Scotland the laughing stock of the world. That is exactly what London want, to reduce Scotland’s standing on the international stage, and, that is exactly what will happen!

        They could remove devolution tomorrow if they wanted and place Scotland back into the dark ages, and why not? We never voted for the idiots running the country anyway!

        I am sick fed up reading the utter drivel and scare monger your ilk continue to post. ‘Oh watch out for the future’, ‘oh we are too small’, ‘Oh we are in better shape together’ ARE WE HELL! Any normal sane person reading up on the facts can see right through this drivel, only those with closed minds are totally incapable!

        yeah bring on the Orange marches and UKIP support, the bigotry and racism to rule Scotland and the UK, yeah, great idea! It is embarrassing and cringeworthy watching celebs falling over themselves to beg us to stay, it is cringeworthy watching politicians lying through their teeth and threatening us.

        Mark my words, more and more people are seeing through the bluster that you and people like you keep throwing about. People are fed up of the threats and scaremongering!

        The future holds nothing darker or bleak than we face already, only after a yes vote we are in control of our own destiny, the way any country should be. Not being controlled by another countries government we never voted in!

        There is no point in debating this with people so set in their ways. There is no point in discussing the future because none of us know what it holds. All I know is I would far rather be in control of our own destiny with the vast amount of additional resources we would have! Without nukes on our door step, without a 1.4 trillion debt hanging over our head with a government WE vote in, in a democratic process designed for our country and its people so WE can decide what our future holds, not some other country!

      • A. Strachan said “So please cut the rhetoric! Your head has been firmly buried in the sand for months! ”

        Do give me some examples of what I have said that has been refuted by someone with a thought-out and credible rationale rather than their own rhetoric and assertions. I spent most of 2012 and 2013 on the fence, trying to get my head around the issues – before gradually becoming convinced that independence is a bad idea in practice, even though highly appealing patriotically. You said “There is no point in debating this with people so set in their ways.” Try looking in a mirror !

        A. Strachan said “Eire survived far better than the UK through the last fiscal crash”

        No I don’t think it did – see my other post this morning.

        A. Strachan said “They could remove devolution tomorrow if they wanted and place Scotland back into the dark ages, and why not?”

        Now who’s scaremongering! That’s hardly likely – any more than Scotland is likely to get rid of its nukes by dropping them on London!

        A. Strachan said “Any normal sane person reading up on the facts can see right through this drivel, only those with closed minds are totally incapable!”

        Sounds like bluster to me. I invite you again to read “Scottish Independence, Weighing Up the Economics” by Gavin McCrone (who authored the report so often held up as showing why Scotland should be independent). It will give you a good, solid, impartial analysis of the facts, without taking sides, and pointing out both sides of the issues. Read that, and then tell me why you think Scotland should be independent. Get the 2014 edition, to be bang up to date. But don’t read it and then claim Gavin McCrone is talking nonsense simply because you don’t like what some of his analysis turns up.

        A Strachan quoted “New Treasury Minister Priti Patel on the record wanting to slash Scottish spending” – sure from the Westminster point of view on the referendum debate, that seems an unwise position to take. But that’s pretty old news being dredged up – that was said in 2012! Lots of things have moved on since then. It just points out that what politicians ‘say’ is more angled to selling whatever their agenda is at the time rather than an objective view, and that applies even more to the ‘yes’ campaign (and I agree, the ‘no’ campaign does it too)!

        By the way – as I understand it – in absolute terms, Scotland isn’t all that rich. The GDP figure is high, in part because there aren’t so many of the population to spread our wealth between, and because the ’14th’ ranking in wealth also includes oil income, and dates from a couple of years ago.

        I don’t know if Scotland is overall a net contributor or recipient of resources from the UK – but whichever way the balance is edging just now, it seems roughly balanced when you look at the scale of it against the overall budget? I think that point is over-hyped by both sides! I don’t think anyone from either side really knows what the actual position is.

        A Strachan said “What real risks? ”
        There are a whole load of obvious risks we all face which are nothing to do with the referendum or status of Scotland, but which Scotland must weather along with everyone else (everything from another global banking crisis, getting the national debt (not just deficit) under control, global warming, international terrorism, energy shortage and more). Will we weather these things better together or alone?
        Then there are risks specific to the change proposed by the ‘yes’ campaign – e.g. looks increasingly unlikely we’ll get into Europe membership any time soon and could be forced into the Euro to get in, looks unlikely we’ll get to share the pound (though that might be a blessing or a curse – I don’t know), both the UK and Scotland ending up with a lower credit rating following the split, and facing tougher economic challenges, a runaway Scottish government trying to make good on its promises to the electorate made during the ‘yes’ campaign without the funds to support them. I’m speculating – I don’t know – but there are many risks out there which have to be faced. Whichever way you dice it – leave emotion out of it and it’s far from a ‘no-brainer’ – it’s a leap of faith with little evidence!

        A Strachan said “WE can decide what our future holds, not some other country!”

        And there I totally agree – emotionally and patriotically, that would be a great position to aspire to. But all the long-term practicalities have to stack up as well, convincingly! And so far, they don’t appear to.

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