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This is a campaign that will make sure that the patriotism of the quiet majority will be heard alongside the voices of the committed few. We share a common platform on this single issue because, along with so many of our fellow Scots, we believe that a better future for ourselves and our children is as a partner in the United Kingdom.

 

Alistair Darling’s speech in Edinburgh launching the Better Together campaign

 

 

Have your say ahead of the referendum

 

Welcome to the No Scotland Blog. Here you will find links to all the latest news and features on the Scottish Independence Referendum from both Yes and No camps.

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Comments

  1. Salmond is now showing the reason why the majority voted No he would have taken Scotland into the gutter.
    His true colours are now showing, he is a very bad loser, and is bringing the democratic process into disrepute with the quotes coming from the man. I will not miss him, he gives Scotland a bad name, the quicker he disappears and is flushed down the toilet the better.

    • Not sure that Nicola Sturgeon might turn out to be even worse though!

      Both seem interested in independence at all costs and forget everything else unless it leads somehow down that road. What Scotland really needs is leadership that will look at the best interests of Scotland as a vital partner in the UK (which does mean thinking about the best interests of the UK as well, alongside Scotland!), rather than being continually directed by the independence agenda that is supposed to have been ‘put to bed’ for a generation.

      And crucially, work with the UK, not behave as an adversary fighting against it!

      The short to medium term future doesn’t look all that bright.

      And yet, if they changed their tune, the SNP might actually have had an opportunity right now to provide a credible alternative government to Labour. But they won’t drop their independence tunnel vision, so that won’t happen.

      We need a greater proportion of Scottish voters to see sense – without that, there’ll be no real change in the government. Pity that kind of thing needs a catastrophe or two first!

    • The only political leader in Britain with a democratic majority. In case you haven’t noticed Scotland, and Britain, are already in the gutter…that’s why some of us want change.

      • Then I’m afraid you’ll have to enlighten me. Britain seem to me to be in the process of being hauled out of the gutter that Labour left them in – and although there’s still a lot of problems, particularly with the level of national debt (which neither Labour nor amazingly, the SNP seem to care about), we seem to be making real progress at last.

        I haven’t seen anything in any of the pronouncements by anyone in Labour, the SNP or the ‘yes’ campaign that they care more than ‘lip service’ about the national debt – and that with its servicing costs and risks to our long term credit ratings have to be extremely high on the list of things to worry about.

        All these laudable aspirations about social fairness and the like are irrelevant if we are not in a position to afford them – something which Labour have discovered twice during my lifetime, and which I really hope they won’t have the opportunity to discover again.

        Looks to me as though the SNP have the same ideas at heart – though the one hope might be that their promises are electoral spin to try to get a ‘yes’ vote – and if they had gotten past the point of no return, just maybe the promises would have evaporated in favour of more painful economic common sense?

        But we’ll never know, probably!

        On the positive side – great that discussion here is continuing again :)
        Hope some more join in! Just because the referendum is out of the way doesn’t mean we all have to go to sleep!

  2. Recent quotes from Alex Salmond

    “A parliament with more powers could declare an end to the 300 year old union without seeking a mandate from the people or authority from Westminster”
    “A once in a generation referendum could be avoided if circumstances change”
    “You establish a parliament and you establish successively more powers until you have a situation where you’re independent in all but name, and then, presumably, you declare yourself independent”
    “Many countries have proceeded through that route; there is a parliamentary route where people can make their voices heard as well, so a referendum is only one of a number of routes”.

  3. can anyone tell me if there is a website for people traumatised by the thought of leaving the UK. It wouldn’t be so bad if we could now relax but the threats of some sort of uprising and the SNP garnering support daily is very unsettling. It would be good if there were a proper website which promotes the union and gives people an outlet to air their views and get advice.

    • “It would be good if there were a proper website which promotes the union and gives people an outlet to air their views and get advice.”

      There may be something happening on that front. I will hopefully know over the next day or two.

      You are right that the SNP and followers have the appearance of intentionally causing concern. My personal view is that it will not go away, and may be exacerbated by growing opposition from the rest of the UK. None of this is helped by the Westminster wimp attitude.

      Pressure is rising on that Genie bottle cork. We need something to take that pressure off!

      • Have to agree. Having observed the snp and green party in action over the past couple of months they will never give up the ground they have gained on the contrary they are busy building on it. I think we will have more protests and peace marches and food banks in George Square trying to promote the Independance party as the caring party while spreading hatred of Westminster. If SNP get a majority of seats in 2016 and more devolved powers Jim Sillers has said we are going for Independance with or without a constitutional referendum. He also said if they don’t get the promised powers we will go for it sooner. If they didn’t have the growing support they now have you could shrug them off as nutters but unfortunately they have picked on the idealistic youth to spread their message through facebook etc and of course they have the green party who are experts at organizing demonstrations.

      • But what can an independence movement do without the agreement of the UK? Turn us into another civil conflict like that for decades in Northern Ireland? While I’m sure there are a few nutcases capable of that kind of thing around, I cannot believe any serious folk in the SNP or green party would go down that route! Businesses would flee, investment would dry up etc. etc.

        And the UK wouldn’t cooperate – which means Scotland gets cut off, on its own! Independence with the cooperation of the UK would have been bad enough! I don’t really believe even Jim Sillars would seriously suggest it might be feasible to go independent without the cooperation of the UK!

        No currency union, no credit rating, probably no EU for a long time, no assistance in sorting out issues where agencies are joint across the border, possibly no oil unless Scotland uses whatever military assets it can hang on to to fight for it, no Barnett formula, no nothing from a hostile UK! And probably lots of angry ex-pat Scots living in England.

        What am I missing?

        Lets not jump to conclusions on the back of a silly and inflammatory rant from one extremist!

      • Dear John,
        Hope you and Angus recognise each other!
        I really hope that this frightening referendum has been a wake up call for the complacent members of the UK Government. I trust that they will get the facts over to the Scots regarding the profound integration of our Union.
        It was really disappointing that knights of the realm supported the breakup of our country. I hope they return their honours!
        Perhaps a solution would be to have a ‘hybrid’ Scottish MP, who sits both at Westminster and Holyrood? We are underrepresented in the UK, and grossly over represented in Scotland. We do not need a total of 180 elected representatives for a population of only 5m, and we certainly should not be influencing local English issues.
        The other issue that came over were the blatant lies the SNP told about the NHS. I was extremely disappointed in Harry Burns, who has abused his position to scaremonger.
        Thank you both for your thoughtful and incisive comments, they were a breath of fresh air amongst the nonsense spoken by others.
        Regards,
        Russell

      • “Hope you and Angus recognise each other!”

        We did — and discovered we knew each other 30+ years ago! Edinburgh is such a village.

        “I really hope that this frightening referendum has been a wake up call for the complacent members of the UK Government. I trust that they will get the facts over to the Scots regarding the profound integration of our Union.”

        As a result of a really good chat there’s something new coming over the weekend. It’s a blog, forum and wiki to hold reference material. Designed to build a factual reference base, with the main thrust being the kind of in-depth discussion we’ve had here, and articles emanating from current affairs. It will have a political section, and probably an NHS section amongst others too. Hopefully, contributors will fill gaps not provided by Westminster or other places of power.

        All welcome! Including both sides of the Scottish Independence debate, and any other debate.

        Watch this space! And thanks, Angela, for identifying that something was missing.

      • Hi – sorry I’ve been so long in replying to your post! I’ve been coming up for air after the referendum – more or less taking a little break from all this!

        We did indeed find each other, and as Russell said, spookily discovered we knew each other from decades ago! A small world! Pity you are so far away you couldn’t join us. Your knowledgeable remarks about the NHS were invaluable, and provided insights that don’t appear to be available in the regular media!

        Now of course, the question is where next? Sadly, it already appears that there is little intent amongst the ex ‘yes’ campaigners to abide by the commitment given by Alex Salmond so publicly, that the question of independence is now settled for at least a generation, and possibly a lifetime. Instead, we keep hearing noises about folk trying to keep things going.

        But it leaves me with a conundrum about the Scottish general elections when they come round. Labour is disastrous and will never again get my support after they wrecked the economy for the second time around in their last period of government. Every time they’ve been in power in my lifetime, the economy has been left in a catastrophic mess and has had to be painfully rescued by the conservatives!

        But the SNP whom seem to be the only real alternative in Scotland seem set on continuing to rock the boat instead of showing some integrity and working cooperatively within the UK for Scotland’s prosperity without being distracted by a question that is officially settled for 20 years or more!

        Would be nice to see something from the SNP outlining what their vision for a Scotland within the UK is, and what policies they would follow if elected to remain in government as a regular government rather than as an independence pressure group! Initial comments from Nicola Sturgeon don’t sound encouraging though :(

        I hope you will remain around, and continue to contribute when you can to any discussion that is going on! Perhaps we’ll even see you in person some day :)

    • I sincerely hope and believe your concerns are a little premature!

      Firstly, the SNP alongside the Westminster party leaders have publicly agreed that the question is settled for a generation. There is no uprising that can overturn that – they might not like it, but I think Scotland is now committed to being part of the UK for twenty years, after which I guess, if there is still a belief that the union isn’t working for Scotland, the matter could be raised again.

      Might be a good idea to let the dust settle before jumping to conclusions! After all, we are all adults here, and I believe the majority of ‘yes’ campaigners are like the majority of the rest of us – law abiding and prepared to work to make Scotland a success in the union or out of it. Don’t let a minority of childish and irresponsible thugs on either side scare you to that extent.

      I hope I don’t end up eating my words, but either way, things need to settle down a bit before we’ll know for sure! But if Scotland turns into a nation dominated by yes ‘thugs’, it might actually cause me to leave the country that I feel is ‘home’. Here’s hoping Scotland is too ‘grown up’ for that!

    • I actually think you need medication rather than a website. Your continued levels of anxiety are (to use the Scottish Tory leader Lamont’s favourite word) ..astonishing! Seek help lass.

      • having said that, the comments apparently being bandied about by the SNP where they seem to be trying to prepare the ground for an attempt to go independent without waiting for another referendum, and not abiding by what they formally agreed to (the union) – these comments (if they are as I’ve heard them reported) are irresponsible and dangerous. Any politician with any integrity should know better, as should anyone that might otherwise be minded to trust them with the future of Scotland.

        Had they done what was promised, and stood up to work with Westminster to find a way to make the union work, they might have gotten my support too – but trying still to be fighting the UK is scandalous after the referendum result.

        They look like they’re shaping up to be even worse (if that’s possible) than the last Westminster Labour government!

  4. Sadly, looks like Alex Salmond is showing his post-referendum colours. Rather than looking for ways to help make devolution of additional powers work better for Scotland, according to this evening’s news, he seems to be looking for excuses already to blame Westminster for reneging on promises before they’ve really had a chance to get started! If he doesn’t want to help make it work, he should at least have some integrity and shut up until it becomes clear whether the promises are being kept or not.

    Of course, he might be thinking that by keeping up the pressure, he’ll rush Westminster into a solution that isn’t as fully supported or as good for Scotland as it should be – and then after the powers are in place, the SNP will turn round and criticise Westminster for not involving the SNP more or trying to rush things. Or am I being too cynical?

    Sooner he goes the better, and lets hope his successor has a more cooperative attitude! Though I kind of doubt it.

    I think the SNP might be about to miss a great opportunity here.

    • looks like Alex Salmond is trying to start a revolution in Scotland. He just will not let go and accept defeat. I can’t believe that he has been allowed to cause such disruption to this country and people are still supporting him. Please will he just go away. It’s really worrying.

      • I know – and I think Alex Salmond summed up the problem in one sentence in his speech where he announced he was going to stand down. He said something like “the dream will never go away”.

        That is the problem – this nationalist movement is based primarily, not on realities, but on a ‘dream’ – an aspiration for patriotic reasons, and for which the costs and benefits really don’t matter. The dream of independence is the end in itself, regardless of whether it actually ends up being better or worse for Scotland or the UK. I think its a ‘pride’ thing.

        Folk who look first at what will benefit everyone, and don’t have the emotional dream, almost never seem to push for independence. Those that do have the dream and don’t care about anything else, spend their time looking for reasons to justify their dream, while ignoring anything inconvenient. They are the dangerous ones who could ruin us and the UK.

        Nothing demonstrates that danger more in my view, than the way in which, having lost the referendum and knowing that independence is supposed to be off the agenda for at least twenty years, are now trying to rock the Westminster boat and apparently attempting to scupper attempts to take this forward. When a responsible attitude would be for the government of Scotland (who have a duty to the whole of the Scottish people, not just those with a dream!!!!) to offer to work with Westminster to find the best way forward for the union to which they accept they are now committed by the referendum result). But it took them only 48 hours after defeat before they started trying to get the fight going again. It’s disgraceful!

    • Speaking of AS and his successor, look at these two: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-29292324 , what’s not to like? They are like Hansel and Gretel

      Let’s not anticipate too much, let’s not make assumptions

      Instead, enjoy the euphoria; as the 80’s song says:
      “Don’t worry, be happy…if you worry, contact this forum, we will make you happy”

      • Oh don’t get me wrong – I am both happy and relieved. But I also feel we could be on the cusp of great change, and right now might be exactly the time to have a big influence on the outcome. Would be a tragedy if, because of nationalist principles, our government missed a rare opportunity to be a major contributor to a cooperative and consensus settlement that would set Scotland up for the future and also lay the groundwork for compatible settlements for other parts of the UK. If the SNP throw away this opportunity ‘on principle’ and just go back to adversarial fighting, they don’t deserve to be in government (in my view).

        I’m not happy about Nicola Sturgeon succeeding Alex Salmond though – not that it’s any of my business as I’ve nothing to do with the SNP. But I feel she would be more abrasive and outwardly aggressive about independence than even Alex would have been, and that is the last thing Scotland needs right now! Hopefully I’ll be proved wrong.

  5. Does anyone know whether the Scottish Parliament can hold a referendum for scottish independance without the consent of Westminster. Tried to google it but still unsure.

    • My belief is that we in Scotland can hold a referendum on anything we like, whenever we like, from independence to the hunting season for the haggis. But unless the UK formally agrees, it will have no binding jurisdiction on the rest of the UK who can ignore the result.

      Someone tell me if I’m wrong?

      • I would really like a cast iron guarantee from Cameron that we will not have another referendum in the next 30 years. I believe the SNP will be working to undermine the westminster government and incite dislike of the English before the eu referendum(if it goes ahead) in 2017. If its a vote to leave the EU I am worried it will trigger another independence referendum.

      • I don’t think any politician of any flavour will ever give anybody a cast-iron guarantee about anything, and if they do, they are deceiving you!

        But given that independence now would have been a disaster for the UK as well as probably for Scotland – whatever the SNP might believe or do will not convince the rest of the UK that independence can be tolerated any time soon!!

        So I cannot imagine any of the current Westminster parties agreeing to another independence referendum for at least a generation – which was the minimum timescale mentioned. And to be fair – if twenty years as a partner in a reforming UK does not improve things in Scotland to a level that changes public perceptions and makes an independence referendum less likely to succeed, perhaps the UK would deserve to be shaken up again!

        For what its worth – I’m guessing that many of the issues which are so controversial today will be much clearer in 20 years –
        * we will have a much better idea of just how much oil is or is not economically recoverable,
        * renewable technologies will be more mature and we’ll know better how much we’ll get from them,
        * climate change will probably be higher up the global agenda and perhaps driving up prices for renewables (good for us) and causing oil and gas prices to collapse (good for the environment, though bad for oil revenues!),
        * we may know if fusion technology is about to change the whole picture
        * Europe may have a more settled direction and we’ll either be in it or out of it, but whichever it is, it will be known!
        *The reforms in the UK that hopefully bill be kicking off now will have had some time to prove themselves and be fine tuned for everyone’s benefit

        and there’ll be a whole new clutch of issues on the table – probably more global ones than local ones. Who knows what will be the right thing to do then – though my guess is that there will still be a good case to keep stick to the UK.

        I do hope the SNP will have the integrity to abide by the democratic result and do their best to make the union work rather than trying to undermine it. And I think they might, though I have my doubts if any of the current obvious leadership candidates should succeed Alex Salmond. We’ll know in a couple of months though, who will lead, and whether they’re being cooperative or adversarial !

        Whatever else politics might be, it isn’t is boring !!

Trackbacks

  1. […] I came across John’s post at a No website that tries to debate issues despite Cybernats bullying. John put it this […]

  2. […] An informative article on a No to Scottish independence website was delivered to me today. It adds another perspective to arguments by both Better Together and Yes to independence. For the full article, by North Sea geologist Joe H, see noscotland.net/comment-page-51/#comment-8465. […]

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